Nivada Grenchen with the Yachting subdial (aka “Big Eye”)

This post is under construction! Need to be more researched … lets collect all pieces and numbers and try to discuss.

What we have till now?

Around 15 pieces including the ones from a found of a big depot with water damaged watches in a cellar in Grenchen.

Lets try to do a roll call.

Some of the watches have different hands on the subdials, so maybe there are more executions then just one from the hands.
Inside works always a Valjoux 23.

About the reference

Anthony, one of the authors of the Chronomaster Book, got 5 pieces in his database and all with reference 85006/3385.

I texted with him about the reference and he is quite sure after the research.
He stated ” They actually are 85006/3385. This is a specific ref, just for this model, and all the « compliant » models we have analyzed and registered in our database have this ref.
And “we have 5 different 85006 watches (#1, #2 plus 3 others that you don’t have in your list“. 3385 is the number inside the caseback.

About the ones with reference 86004 with yachting dial Anthony said “we have done a deep research about 85004s and their specific features (and you know that there are also different sub-refs for 85004s, corresponding to different features)“.

And to count the 86004 as a real yachting reference too is “a pure non-sense also on an industrial basis… this very specific watch has to have a specific ref, and not the same that dozens of other coherent and homogeneous 85004 types

Well, they researches a lot and know all the executions as we can see in the book so I think we can trust his expertise – on base of the researched numbers of watches.

But that means too: that all the 86004 with yachting dial (Big Eye called in the book) are built together.
Are they? Really? I can´t say it on the base of information I have. Possible, of course – or not. Need much more facts and research in my eyes.

Maybe the ones on the Grenchen found are built togethers (but: they were found mounted as shown on the pics below in the list).
And: there are also some yachtings around with 86004 that are not from that source.

Lets do as always in the research, it seems to be the best way:
let´s collecting data and then interpreting what we have because we like the empirical method!

So first we sort the knowing pieces in the reference groups.
(diff means difference to the one in the book taken as reference-watch)

OVERVIEW

Reference 85006
#85006-01: the one in the book (Matteo Master of Speed) – baton on right and left register
#85006-02: ebay Germany 2012 – diff: alpha hand on left register, baton on right register
#85006-03 (Anthonys database,) no pics seen till now
#85006-04 (Anthonys database) no pics seen till now
#85006-05 (Anthonys database) no pics seen till now
#85006-06 Clément
#85006-07 no pics seen till now

Reference 85004
#85004-01 subsea57 – diff: arrowed white hand with different shape seems wrong, needle hand on right register, lollipop too short
#85004-02 german forum Gerdson – diff: alpha hand on left register is correct, all other hands and bezel are incorrect
#85004-03 heuerchrono (from JimJupiter) – 85004/3181, diff: alpha hand on left register, needle baton hand on right register *1)
#85004-04 JimJupiter – diff: alpha hand on left register, needle baton hand on right register *1)
#85004-05 JimJupiter – diff: alpha hand on left register, needle baton hand on right register *1)
#85004-06 JimJupiter – diff: alpha hand on left register, needle baton hand on right register *1)
#85004-07 eBay South Africa – diff: hands, bezel, pisher, crown are wrong, “100% wrong
#85004-08 IG about_time_vintage – thin regatta register needle
#85004-09 Seng, found on FB – diff: hands, shape MH seems ok but longer lumen, lollipop with diff. shape (bubble more outer placed)

*1) Anthony: “sorry but I don’t trust the ones from jimjupiter because what I see is just spare parts

Reference unknown till now
#8500X-01 rare_watches – diff: alpha hand on left register, wrong regatta hand
#8500X-02 unknown (from rumours same source like JimJupiter) – diff: alpha hand on left register, baton hand on right register like #85006-01
#8500X-03 neptuno.1968 – diff: alpha hand on left register, needle baton hand on right register


The Reference 85006 list


#85006-01 – The one from the “Chronomaster Only” book

– baton hands on subdials, left hand only seen on this (don´t know Anthony other exemplares)

reference caseback: 85006
credit: moonwatchonly.com
from the book Chronomaster only


#85006-02 – eBay Germany 2012

– alpha hand on left register, same as many 85004 have

reference caseback: 85006
credit: ebay


#85006-03 Anthonys database, not seen

#85006-04 Anthonys database, not seen

#85006-05 Anthonys database, not seen


#85006-06 Clément

credit: Clément


#85006-07 no pic

 


The Reference 85004 list


#85004-01 Subsea57

– arrowed white hand with different shape seems wrong, needle baton hand on right register, lollipop too short (maybe just broken?)

case ref 85004
credit: subsea57 IG

 

#85004-02 – German forum Gerdson

– alpha hand on left register is correct, all other hands and bezel are incorrect
– installed shown bezel is later replaced
– bought from eBay Italy

reference caseback: 85004
credit: Gerdson


#85004-03 – heuerchrono

– alpha hand on left register, needle baton hand on right register
– the best from JimJupiters found in Grenchen
– Anthony: “sorry but I don’t trust the ones from jimjupiter because what I see is just spare parts

reference caseback: 85004
credit: jimjupiter


#85004-04 waterdamaged one from JimJupiter

#85004-05 waterdamaged one from JimJupiter

#85004-06 waterdamaged one from JimJupiter

– from a found of watches in Grenchen there are 3 more Yachtings, they were found mounted as pictured, not in parts
– all with same registerhand configuration: alpha hand on left register, needle baton hand on right register
– dials got all a high damage from water unfortunately
– all of them are reference 85004

– watches were configured as shown, so the hands seems to be the real configuration.

credit: JimJupiter


#85004-07 – eBay South Africa

– hands, bezel, pisher, crown are wrong, “100% wrong

credit: ebay


#85004-08 – about_time_vintage (IG)

– only diff is the thin regatta register needle, not sure if questionable or fine, many have this

credit: about_time_vintage

 


#85004-09 – Seng (FB Nivada group)

– diff: main hands, the shape of MH seems ok but have “longer” lumen, the lollipop has a diff. shape, the bubble is placed more outer then standard

credit: Seng

 




Reference not known till now but seen watches


#8500X-01 rare_watches

– alpha hand on left register, wrong regatta hand

credit: rare_watches IG


#8500X-02 NN

– alpha hand on left register, baton hand on right register like #85006-01

credit: unknown

This one is from the same source as Nicos from the found in Grenchen.



#8500X-03 neptuno.1969

– alpha hand on left register, needle baton hand on right register

credit: neptuno.1969



A few more are known with many different dial layouts known with reference 85004, but some can be used for yachting purpose too with the 5-4-3-2-1 register or 5min/10 min colored semgents.

More a multipurpose colored dial as described here a bit more.

You can see some different executions with a 5-4-3-2-1 register here and found the movements described on Richards Blog. There are many more to see in the Chronomaster Only book!

credit: Richard Askham


Will research these watches more next, if you can help – please let me know! Looking for ads or catalogpics!

Thanks a lot to Nico (Jim Jupiter) for all the infos!

Chronomaster only is another well researched book from the authors of Moonwatch Only and can´t wait to read it.

Thanks a lot to Anthony for sending us the wonderful pic for showing here! For more info about the new Chronomaster Book follow the authors on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/watchbooksonly/

That they got crazy experience in the research you can see at this pic. Unbelievable.

credit: thereferencewatchbooks